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Is Torture Ever Okay?

Torture: Ticking time bombs and slippery slopes
A Talk by Dr John Janzekovic

Embiggen Books, Noosaville, 25 March 2009

John Janzekovic discusses the ethics and politics of torture at Embiggen Books, Noosaville.

We’re not all recession-immune luvvies thinking about nothing more taxing than our next Restylene appointment in Noosa, you know.

Last night, about 30 thoughtful and concerned folk of all ages got together at  Embiggen Books in Noosaville to hear Sunshine Coast University professor John Janzekovic talk about torture. Specifically, is torture ever ethical, and are we in the West complicit in torture when  we don’t take steps to prevent it? (i.e in Abu Ghraib or ‘rendition-friendly’ countries)

What followed was a lot of lively, intelligent and occasionally frustrating debate – just what I like as a politics junkie. Dr Janzekovic has published extensively on military history and made some very thought-provoking comments. Basically, he refuted the idea that torture can prevent the jailed terrorist from activating the ticking bomb (it’s a fantasy scenario) and he said any ‘civilised’ country practicing torture is on the slippery slope to non-civilisation.

However, some major questions remained unanswered (by audience or speaker). If you don’t use torture, what DO you do to prevent terrorism? If torture is a slippery slope towards brutality, is excessive leniency a slippery slope towards advertising our vulnerability to our enemies? As one older audience member commented, we’ve been discussing the ethics of this issue for decades; where are the answers?

I agree. I respect some of Dr Janzekovic’s opinions, but he had no alternatives to torture as a means of information gathering besides ‘do something else’ and ‘trust in the UN’. Do what else? Trust in the organisation with the shameful legacy of Rwanda (and many more), which can’t even get ‘civilised’ countries to agree on a Women’s Rights Charter or ratify the International Convention on the Rights of the Child?

Like so many political discussions I’ve had recently, this one seemed to be unhelpfully split between both personal-political lines and left-right lines, and sadly this is usually the road to hypocrisy.

The It’s Personal defend torture as just something people do, so what are you gonna do about it? Or it’s something you’d do if you had enough reason to do it, so what’s wrong with it?

My confession: I can imagine myself torturing someone for any of a possible hundred reasons. Molesting children. Setting wildlife-destroying bushfires. Stoning women. Making my girlfriend unhappy. Kicking my cat. Thank God the KGB never recruited me when I was a communist, since I appear to be so prone to political violence. Sure, communism’s dead now, but don’t EVER kick my cat.

The political Right defend torture as the ultimate crime prevention tool, happily in line with human nature. At their extreme, like Dubya, they seem to think anyone who doesn’t believe in God, Guns and Money deserves a life of solitary confinement.

The political Left are righteously offended by torture – as long as it’s practised by the US, Australia or Israel. If it’s practised by China or Iran, we should engage in mutually humanistic and non-offensive dialogue with them. And forget, say, intervening in Zimbabwe. As one man said, “The Chinese wouldn’t like that”. Settles that then.

So there’s my problem with torture debates. So few people admit their own weaknesses that would lead them to support torture. So few people admit their own hypocrisies. So few people want to design alternatives, even those folks smart enough to design them.

Despite this, credit due where credit must be due. The folks at Embiggen Books have created a real space for fascinating debate and discussion in Noosa. They made informed and interesting points in the general debate (gender! religion! thank you!) They have a non-fiction bookclub which discusses this stuff, and quantum physics, and humanism, where most bookshop-related talks stick to the safest and most middle-class topics (like renovating in Tuscany).

I’m a bookshop girl, having worked at five of them while you slackers were off studying and building careers. I was at first dubious about Embiggen being a nonfiction bookshop, but now I’m sold. Like Red Books (RIP) in Brisbane, it’s a cauldron of ideas, about more than the sale. I can’t wait to go and hear the talk on humanism in a month, which will almost balance out my being vaguely nice about Christians last month.

Carolyn Ride is a writer, editor and is frequently embiggened by a noble spirit.

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